This is a very tricky one, which will take top-notch admin like @Marko to figure out.
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Yo dawg, I heard you like Malvern so we put Malvern in your Knights and Aston Manors so that you can Malvern while you’re Knighting and Aston Manoring.
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Alright, from what I can see here, Aston Manor first introduced the Malvern Gold under the Knights brand. Then, in late 2018 / early 2019, it phased out the Knights brand and pushed Malvern Cider Co. as a new brand. And then you can find it as Aston Manor Malvern Gold some places - as it’s an Aston Manor cider, regardless of the branding.
All issues stem from the fact that Aston Manor brands were added as separate cideries, without any sign of AM in the names.
AM has 3 production facilities:
-Stourport (“apple pressing and processing”)
-Aston (“packaging”)
-Tiverton (“production and packaging”)
- warehouse and logistics in Witton
Everything else is orchards where no cider production is done I guess.
I’m not sure how we’d handle this on RB. Not sure how much actual cider fermentation etc. is being done at Stourport and Aston (there should be in the latter?) - if everything can be set to Tiverton or whatever. If someone has better info, they can intervene perhaps.
All in all, those 3 are the same cider. The issue we have here is the fake cideries.
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Hard to say they are the same cider. The Knights Malvern Gold also had a Medium Reserve and Medium Dry Reserve version as well (these were available with the different Medium Reserve and Medium Dry Reserve namings on the bottles):
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/knights-malvern-gold-medium-dry-reserve/462286/
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/knights-malvern-gold-medium-reserve/63455/
For the Aston Manor Knights Cider that was recently added, if you look at the picture it’s actually of the medium class bottle mentioned in the article on the website from 2017:
“In the dry class Knights Malvern Oak won one of only 10 golds and in the medium class Knights Malvern Gold won one of 9 silvers – a truly fantastic result.”
It also gives the apple blend.
So have been Medium Reserve, Medium Dry Reserve and the award winning “medium” 750ml bottle variant for the Knights Malvern Gold
Also the Knights brand does look to have been resurrected (recycled?) with Knights Premium Cider appearing again in 2020:
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/knights-cider-premium/846855/
The picture can be ignored it’s one I found on internet. It was BIAB at the festival as Aston Manor Malvern Gold. Funnily, I can see programme description was “in the shadow of…blah blah blah” as per this:
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/malvern-gold-medium-dry/780768/
So it was the same as this, but different brand name.
But does “Malvern Cider Co” deserve to be it’s own entity on here or should it sit under Aston Manor? Not sure it does deserve it from what @marko said.
If they stay separate can the one I entered have Knights removed from name and then be aliased?
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/aston-manor-knights-malvern-gold/1129858/
Also Knights Cider does look to have been a separate company with an Aston address up to 2011 when it was dissolved
So entries added before then were Knights Ciders
Their original address also matches the ratebeer entry:
“17 May 2006 Registered office changed on 17/05/06 from: crumpton oaks farm storridge near malvern worcestershire WR13 5HP”. Looks like a case of Knights cider going out of business and retiring older entries, moving later entries after 2011 to be brands of Aston Manor?
The history can be gleaned from the page. Knights Cider was indeed a separate company, since 1996, run by the Knight family, at the Crumpton Oaks farm. Then, in 2006, you can spot the Ellis / Aston Manor takeover. The company is actually dormant since the end of 2009. 2007 news mention a “cider mill at Malvern”, which was most likely closed then and production moved elsewhere. The site was probably used as an orchard since, with “Knights”, “Crumpton Oaks” and “Malvern” all being used as brands by AM from then on.
The Aston Manor wiki page is interesting - they seem to have gobbled up afew companies - “In 2008 it was the third largest cider company in the UK by market share, and the fourth largest in the world”, “In 2009 the company took over the Devon Cider Company, based in Tiverton, and has expanded the manufacturing facilities on that site”
and there’s a section on an industrial espionage plot again Bulmers that was foiled
Cidery question to admin (or UK cider experts @danlo @minutemat )
Had “Aston Manor Malvern Gold” at a festival Friday. Appeared to be new so added it to Aston Manor. Today I saw it wasn’t there so thought maybe I’d dreamt it during a post-festival haze so added it here having found it was under Aston Manor Knights brand (there are other Knights under Aston Manor):
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/aston-manor-knights-malvern-gold/1129858/
Then noticed my previous rating had in fact been moved to this:
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/malvern-gold-medium-dry/780768/
which wasn’t what I had as it was labelled Aston Monor.
But then I saw this:
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/knights-malvern-gold-medium-dry-reserve/462286/
under Knights.
Are these 3 ciders and cidery entities the same thing? The Aston Manor website touts Knights as a brand.
If they are then there maybe are other dupes eg:
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/knights-cider-malvern-mist/530185/
https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/aston-manor-knights-malvern-myst/531476/
By coincidence I had a bottle of this yesterday. It’s common to see in any border county / mid wales Co Op or Spar. It’s branded under the Malvern Cider Co name, which is owned by Aston Manor.
I would say Knights Malvern Gold and Malvern Gold are the same cider. I don’t know whether Malvern Cider Co is operated at a separate address to Aston Manors main production, or if it’s just a brand name.
Knights Cider entry - clear Aston Manor, the address is of their Crumpton Oaks Farm orchard in Malvern, Worcestershire.
https://www.ratebeer.com/brewers/knights-cider/5286/
Malvern Cider Co. - clear Aston Manor the address is their cider mill / potential production, but not packaging plant in Stourport, Worcestershire
https://www.ratebeer.com/brewers/malvern-cider-co/41545/
In 2015, a direct quote says that Malvern Hills and Stourport are used to create juice, which is then fermented in Aston. Could’ve changed when it comes to Stourport. I do, however, wonder, when the cider production stopped at Malvern. Hm. In any case, I retired Knights for now with an explanation in the description, that seems the obvious thing to do.
@SHIG can you please split out all the Aston Manor / Malvern / Knights posts in a separate thread (called Aston Manor / Malvern / Knights maybe :D)?
Let’s have the discussion in a separate location.
That industrial espionage plot… he must have been drinking too much of his own product.
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