New/Modification of Styles for Mead and Ciders

We have a dozen “styles” of sake, however melomel is still not a style. I don’t really consider myself a mead guy, but it seems mead should be broke down. I am forcing myself down the path to drink a few sake; due to a trade where I am trying to find certain sakes. People that really like sake, are they able to distinguish between the “styles”? I know we have had threads over the years about styles, but here is another one. At this point German Hefeweizen should be just Hefeweizen (is there any confusion that a Hefeweizen is German). I think smoked tart wheat beer should be separated from gose and wild beers should be separated from sours based on the difference in taste. I know New England IPA is popular, I would be okay if it were a style, but I think that a tag under IPA should handle this one. What is the most critical change that should be made? My suggestion is melomel be added.

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Having had all but two styles of sake now, some are certainly different but I can’t distinguish them all. From a novice point of view, I would guess in a random tasting that there were 3-4 styles of sake. I see from this argument how the melomel could be added. Not worth adding, but I had always kind of thought American and English Barleywines were different enough not to be lumped together, since English and American Pale Ales are already separate. Again, never going to be seperated, but I never liked the style of “fruit beer” I always kind of felt it was like making a category called “barrel-aged beer” or coffee adjunct beers being placed into the “spice/herb” category. I am starting to see the case for NEIPA more and more for sure. What about braggot?

All considered, I just wish things would get categorized more appropriately. Seems like I find beers in categories all the time that don’t seem like they fit where they are placed. For example…(and maybe I just overthink). Shouldn’t this be a Porter/ Imperial Porter when the base beer is an Porter? How does barrel aging make it an old ale?

https://www.ratebeer.com/beer/harviestoun-ola-dubh-12-year-old/84035/

In some other thread just last week I posted suggested additional breakdowns of cider and mead both in my opinion can be fleshed out. I’ll see if I can find

Yes there is difference in sake styles like anything some are tougher to distinguish between but it’s in polishing rate of the rice and adding alcohol, aging, etc. and it says on bottle what it is. Anyways I’d love to attract more sake raters to site there just a handful of us gents

Here is link to that thread for ya

Or take Applewine from the area around Frankfurt, Germany. Definitely different to a cider.

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I’m really not an opinionated guy, but my opinion is kvass should be a style in RB.

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Of course!, it’s the “Traditional Ale” style that should not exist…along with the “Fruit Beer” and “Spiced Beer” styles :stuck_out_tongue:

I had wanted to post a proposal on this for months, but somehow I never worked it out completely.

I do believe that we need to separate at least Apfelwein/Most/Sidra from our current Cider category, because ratebeerians who drink that for the first time always react in the same way: “This is not Cider!”

One way to do it would be to incorporate a mixed approach between the purely terroir one (English-Style, French-Style, Asturias/Basque/Galicia-Style, Hessen-Style, South-German/Austrian/Swiss-Style) and the purely categorical one (for which tags are more useful - sparkling, flat, fruited, dry, sweet, etc.)

One possibility would be something like:

  • Cider (fruited) for general Cider that includes other fruits than apples and pears (unsure how quince would go in here); given that we have tons of hoppy Ciders these days as well, we might just go with a “Cider (with adjuncts)” here.

  • Cider (flat) and Cider (sparkling) as well as Perry for English-style Ciders

  • Cidre & Poiré for French-style ones

  • Sidra / Apfelwein / Most imho don’t necessarily need their own categories since they are fairly close to one another in their “not-really-carbonated” versions. Brut versions are a different story.

One important thing to note is that in Austria, “Most” usually contains a blend of apples and pears, and is neither Cider nor Perry.

I think it’s good to have a discussion on this; Also, we would need to find some sources other than “our palates” to show how different these styles are if we want to convince people.

But it’s “completely” different from other Traditional styles, like koduõlu, sahti, taar, taherber

I don’t feel strongly that the number of sake styles should be diminished; because I have not had many. However some of the styles don’t even have ten of that “style” in our database, this seems pretty thin. I see the description is fairly clearly defined on the ingredients/parameters in how each sake is produced, but I am not sure that is a good enough reason, because we have tags for things like this.

There are the highly hopped barley wines (which I prefer the less hopped barley wines) I guess this the American style. Then the more malt forward English barley wine, which I prefer. There are lots of English style barley wines produced in the US, I guess that is not confusing?

I have had some braggots, but they were not something I would seek out again. I have had some melomels that were fantastic. I don’t think ratings should be the only factor in determining whether a new style should be added, but I do think it should be considered. A bunch of the top 50 meads are melomel.

There was a whole thread that there should not really be an English Pale Ale, too close to bitter if I remember correctly.

If fruit or spice is the dominant flavor why not those styles? If not those styles where would you add those beers? I think coffee is more challenging.

While there are distinct cider styles which could well benefit users of the site and help create more detailed ratings i think its a bit of a minefield in terms of correctly categorising all ciders.

Plus i believe its been discussed many times before and dismissed by admins every time.

That said, i wouldnt rule it out. Im sure a few of us ciderheads could propose some sensible style categories. Although that throws up the question of historical filing, plus i dont have a huge amount of confidence that all future entries would be filed correctly, not least because of the limited information on many ciders. But perhaps general rules could work that out.

Really would like a cider/perry with adjuncts category, as many mass market fruited ciders bear no resemblance whatsoever to cider. It would also allow those very few examples of genuinely decent, well-crafted fruited ciders to be celebrated - they don’t necessarily show up on the radar when hidden in the main cider style.

NB before the pedants kick off, by “fruited” I mean having other fruits in addition to apples and pears.

Fuck Meads, and while I’m at it, fuck Braggots. Sorry for the highjacking.

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I think so long as we have them should break out so that maybe attract a few enthusiasts may not have otherwise especially since both are gaining in popularity why not be the expert database on these items unless there is somewhere else to do so. Sorry for ramble been drinking port

I’ve advocated for this change to meads twice now amongst the admins. It’s not happening. There are some good enough reasons for that. Chief among them, I think, is the difficulty in having two different schools of mead classsification (polish vs. others, IIRC).

Why not just have few Polish categories added to mix then just for meads from there (or nearby) and then a few other categories for everywhere else. Doesn’t need to be super difficult just make decision and move on.

We did. :wink:

There may have been other reasons I can’t recall at the moment.

Ha yes that’s true but just know this will keep popping up from time to time as will the further regional breakdowns of new countries until it finally happens. It’s been awhile since features like the two above that people actually want have occurred.

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