New Place Types discussions

It’s quite common in the UK, and presumably abroad too, to have shops with taps. Or bars with a load of beer on sale too. So not just a bar and not just a beer store. Which then results in a decision - which to add a new place as? Is it an idea to add a new place type that combines the two bar/beer shop or beer shop with bar, or similar?

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Many kinds of places should be more refined

KIND
includes / description

Grocery Stores should be split in 2
Food Store (which includes all below in description)
Supermarkets / Full Grocery Store
Butcher shops
Sausages shops
Fruit & Vegetable market
Cheese shops
Convenient Store (which includes all below in description)
Gas Stations
Small Convenient Stores

Bottle Shop (should be split split in these 3)
Beer Stores (beer specialist stores)
Liquor Stores (for stores where Wines, Liquors and Spirits are more centric than beers)
Beer Store with Taps

Brewpub should be split in 2 kinds
Brewpub
Brewpub with Bottle Store

Brewery should be split in 2 kinds
Brewery (Store Only)
Brewery with Taps

Bar should be split in these 5 kinds
Bar / Pub
Craft Tap Bar
Resto-Pub / Gastro-Pub (more tap-oriented than food-oriented)
Off-Site Brewer Tap Room
Client Brewer Bar (where they serve exclusively there own brand house beers but don’t have brewing equipment)

Restaurant
more food oriented and often more more bottle-oriented than tap-oriented

And of course
Cidery
Meadery
Sake / Shuzo Producer

Complexity Bias: Why We Prefer Complicated to Simple

This is more to avoid situations where you think you go to a Beer store, and you arrive on a Liquor store with plenty of Meads/Ciders and many Macro beers but no Craft beers…

Or you get to a place called brewery/brewpub but they are not brewing on site…(I know that in fact, this kinda be called a Bar)

Anyway, maybe the solution would be a better TAGGING option system (TAP BOTTLE GROWLER, KID FRIENDLY, etc) to make it work but right now, it just doesn’t work

I’d refine it like this personally:

Brewpub (define bottle store, a lot of brewpubs sell their beers to go, nearly all in some form where the law allows it)
Brewery - including anything visitable, be it a store, tour or window
Brewery Taproom - separate from the brewery, can be in another town etc. - it would include the unwieldy “client brewer / commissioner brewpub” as, effectively, it really doesn’t matter in this case what kind of brewery it originally is.
Bar / Pub
Restaurant
Beer Store
Beer Store with Taps - no really good English beer term for this
Food / Convenience store (no reason to split this IMO)
Cidery
Meadery
Shuzo/Sake producer

I’d consider maybe the gastro-pub, but that would be going into further into details.

What do the rest of you think?

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Shouldn’t Liquor Store be retained?

And where do we put a Whole Foods with a taproom? Grocery Store with Taps?

Interesting questions.

Depending on the type, I’d say that most liquor stores can be easily dropped under Beer Store or under Grocery / Convenience Store, depending on the lineup.

Store with Taps might be expanded to include that. But tell me - how does it function. Can you sit down there with a beer or is it with taps to go?

Regulations here in Canada sure don’t permit Grocery to have Taps…eck some part of Canada still can’t sell beer in Grocery :stuck_out_tongue:

If it exists…then why not

Whole Foods in Folsom, CA (and there are other WFs like it) has an area tacked on to the store front. There’s a glass wall, then the space for taps and servitors, then a counter/bar and a few tables inside a “fence”. The drinking space is exterior, but the counter is under a large overhead. The service space can be closed off with sliding panels when beer isn’t being dispensed. The decorative fence has a little gate to keep the kiddies at bay. No beer outside the fence.

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Generally:

https://www.google.com/search?q=whole+foods+taproom&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYn8velMDpAhVBgp4KHV7aAxsQBSgAegQIFRAm&biw=1079&bih=912

Ah, it’s actually a separate thing - I mean, once can go get beer and sit without having to enter whole foods as such?

Tricky - unsure if it’s a common enough occurrence to warrant special status. You can look at it three ways really.
-separate place from the Whole Foods it’s paired with
-just grocery store with a much higher rating than the regular one
-store w/taps though it’s clearly not the same thing as the ubiquitous “beer store with taps”

Would make sense - might lead to confusion with 2 places with similar names and the same address.

Whole Foods - Folsom (grocery with substantial beer selection)

Whole Foods Beer Bar - Folsom

But we’ve had similar problems and survived.

https://www.ratebeer.com/p/whole-foods-market-folsom/23814/

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Liquor Store is an Americanism. It’s like English raters asking for Off-License to be added. Either just add them as a beer store or grocery/convenience store or add a more generic alcohol store. I guess it does make some sense in that you could easily turn up at a beer store and then discover it’s a wine shop with just 5 bottles of beer.

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This came up in the UK. A Waitrose supermarket opened a bar. The bar was just set up as a separate place to avoid confusion.

Honestly, any store whose main business isn’t beer but sells beers, whether its main business is selling nails wholesale or alcohol, should be separate from specialist stores and that should be the only separation there.

I’m honestly more of a “separate place” guy in the Whole Foods case too, that’s why I wrote it down first. You can easily drink there without ever going into the store proper.

In Canada, we got a LOT of Liquors stores who carry mostly wines and spirits with almost no beer, or just macro beer…but they often are the only places who carry Meads, Sake and Ciders so they are listed as BEER STORE (they sure are not Grocery Store since they only sell alcohol) since there’s no differentiation between those and real dedicated craft beer shops…but those few true Beer places get lost in the map with the masses

Huh, those should mostly be under Grocery store IMO then. Apply the cutoff on a case to case basis. :confused:

From a functionality side, you still don’t get any new info with liquor store as a separate style - you want to read the reviews anyway, whether it’s a G/C/LC or a separate LC.

Maybe use Non-Specialist Store as the catch-all :grin:

Yeah but they are not… if I plan to buy some food at the same time …maybe I’ll prefer to get my beer in the nearby Grocery Store instead of the nearby Liquor Store…

In the end, they are all stores…we don’t wanna go the dumb way like the Untappd /Foursquare hell but at least I thought Food Store vs Liquor Store should be one

Specialist Store seems a good term indeed :slight_smile:

I’m with you on this Marko.

Keep it simple.

Place rating is criminally undervalued on Ratebeer and is the USP compared to Untappd. It has live beer lists but no sense of what people think about it.

As a Top 5 Place rater you have my vote!

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