The Tuesday Stat Attack: 8 Belgium

Our first Benelux venture; Belgium is a country deep in most beer drinkers hearts, each of us having a favourite beer/style and a favourite place/bar. Everyone knows about Belgian beer (or they think they do), Trappists, Quads, Lambic, Stella, Hoegaarden and Duvel to name but a few.

What else has Belgium got then? Well, it has a 35 mile long coastline with a modern tram system that follows it from top to bottom (very handy for a tram pub crawl). War graves that make you stop and think, hills that make you out of breath and a few famous people like Tin Tin, Captain Haddock and Poirot.

OK, there are some proper well known Belgians, Eddy Merckx and Adolphe Sax being two I can think of at the moment.

The country is of course awash with beer (both excellent and ‘iffy’), it also boasts some of the best beer bars in the world.

RateBeer has 11 Belgian Provinces for you to ‘tick’ from, each with a huge selection of beers and breweries to find without too much stress.

828 Belgian breweries according to our data base, with a further 55 closed. The top four brewery raters are:

Actual beers rated is equally impressive:

Sadly we have lost a lot of our Belgian friends on RateBeer, but there are still a few around. If you want to join the totals leader board of any Province you’ll need to drink heavily and to reach the overall Belgian top 50 you’ll need 1285. Only two Brits in the top 50, well done @harrisoni and @madmitch76.

I am looking forward to this weeks replies, hoping for some good stories and interesting stats, etc, etc.



those are some impressive numbers - I thought my mates on 2k were doing well! I’ve only had about 770 (not on here obvs), but (dons helmet and flak jacket) I basically don’t really like Belgian beer. Heresy, I know, but aside from lambic traditional Belgian beer just doesn’t do it for me, too estery, too boozy, too much spiced beer, to me just meh. Obviously there’s new wave craft brewers but IMO none are up there with the likes of Poland and Ukraine let alone America. The one non-lambic exception for me is Alvinne, but then they mostly brew funky sours, right up my street


It’s a good job we are all different isn’t it Dave (@evilempire)?

I tend to leave the Lambic and Gueuze to sour-puss guys like yourself, while downing sweet malty doubles, quads and whatever else is about that doesn’t suck my cheeks in when I drink it. That’s why I’m heavier than you!


I don’t usually chime in on the RB forums so much of late but Belgium is a country very close to my heart. I’ve visited the country over 100 times in the last 25 years and love the place. Done loads of weekend trips and day trips to fill the old car up with beer. Most of my friends don’t understand my passion for Belgium telling me it is the most boring place in Europe which isn’t true at all. If you like great beer/food/attractive towns and a general quirkiness then it simply can’t be beat. I have an old spreadsheet of all the Belgian beers that I consumed up to 2007 and it is about 1400 beers. I’ve rated about 300 and ticked about 300 on here, if I ever get all my ticks in, I’d be in the top 50 no problem. I don’t think the top 50 list includes ticks does it?


absolutely, and I wasn’t expecting anyone to second my views! even when i started drinking mumblemumble years ago Belgian beer was sacred, you couldn’t be a beer geek and not think Belgian beer was the pinnacle it would seem… but I just never acquired the taste for it

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I absolutely love Belgium and have been countless times, I guess counting just Brugge alone it must be 25+ visits, for me it is a country that punches well above its weight. Yes I guess that in terms of scenery it is lacking a little particularly in the north, however the towns and cities and history more than make up for this.

I seem to have rated 1,150 beers so cannot be too far outside of the top 50

I have rated 155 places which also puts me pretty high amongst the place raters.

I will look at some other stats later, but I love Belgium!


The fact that the only Brits in the top 50 are @harrisoni and @madmitch76 is vaguely consoling for the lesser mortals like myself. I have rated only 46 Belgian ales on RB so I will have to dedicate myself exclusively to Belgian beers for a couple of years if I pine to be included (psst… I don’t).
When circumstances locked me down in Italy earlier this year, I did take the opportunity to order in some Belgian beers to improve my knowledge of the land that is mostly known for beer and chocolate. While the 12 ales that came confirmed the quality in general, I did find the yeast quotient too high for my delicate constitution. Also horror of horrors, I am not a fan of fruit beers which probably explains why Timmermans Strawberry drags down the country average with a 2.7 (I note that it get 2.88 across RB so I am not alone). On the other hand my top 5

–seem a very presentable sample.
I have had my trips to Brussels and a brief stay in Ostend. I have listened to French Belgians complain about Walloons and Flemish Belgians complain about the French. It’s an interesting place and even if I never make the top 50, I will be sampling whenever the opportunity arises. But hopefully the real experts will join the thread.


What, no mention of Belgian waffles, Belgian chocolate and Frikadelles?? :exploding_head:

I first ventured into Belgium around 2005 on my first European tour. We were a bit wet behind the ears when it came to continental culture, and although I’d heard of Belgian beer, I’d never tried it. So the promoter in Gent told us to drink Duvel. Straight from the bottle, mouth and nose full of foam. Sweet, strong with a big hit of flavour. My mind was blown, and it was the turning point.

Belgium’s my second-highest rated country with 779 beers. I used to go over twice a year, but due to lockdown it looks like Wales will overtake it in the leaderboard soon. Top rated beers are:

My Rating Avg Entered Updated
St. Bernardus Abt 12 5 4.13 8/10/2013 12/19/2013
Westvleteren 8 Extra 5 4.19 10/19/2013
Boon Oude Geuze 5 3.62 4/7/2014 6/10/2019
Lindemans / Mikkeller Spontanbasil 4.8 3.77 4/24/2016
Pauwel Kwak 4.7 3.59 1/15/2014 5/20/2015
St. Bernardus Christmas Ale 4.7 3.88 12/15/2014
Omer Vander Ghinste Cuvée des Jacobins (Rouge) 4.7 3.85 5/4/2015
Delirium Nocturnum 4.6 3.56 9/27/2013
St. Bernardus Tripel 4.6 3.8 10/16/2013
Trappistes Rochefort 6 4.6 3.77 1/14/2014

Like other countries, it seems my top 10 is dominated by early ratings. I was kinder in my scores back then but Cuvee des Jacobins definitely deserves its place as does Boon Gueuze. The next beers on the list could easily have a place in the top ten - De Dolle Boskeun, Van de Kaizer Blue, Hommelbier, Malheur 10, Oebier Special reserva, Avec Les Bon voex… the list goes on!

I’ve travelled extensively throughout Belgium, and something that’s hard to accurately describe is Belgium’s many varied quirks and oddities that are just typically Belgian. Such as this giant naked cyclops that greets you on the E17 near Waregem:


Or the emblem of Brussels being a boy pissing in a fountain. One time on a travel day with a Finnish band I booked a log cabin in a full-on Wild-West Themed Ranch, owners dressed like Texas cowboys and shouting a ‘howdi!’ as we entered. Again, typically Belgian. The fins decided to show me a Finnish drinking tradition of filling an entire bottle of vodka with a packet of fisherman’s friends, and shaking it for 15 minutes, completely stripping it of any alcohol harshness. I drank half a pint like it was a can of pop and passed out.

Post-Tour life I tried to cram in as many brewery / beer related visits as I can. Spent a couple of days driving round the Ardennes, calling into Chouffe, Fantome and sitting in on afternoon prayers at the Chimay monastery. Every trip just illustrates the sheer depth of Belgian beer culture and variety of styles. Hopefully one day I’ll make the tour de gueuze.

Favourite places include De Dolle brewery, Bierhalle Deconinck, Fantome, Dranken Geers… but quite often when I think back to my favourite times in Belgium it’s the simple pleasure of finding a small, simplistic cafe and drinking an old favourite (or spotting a regional one-off unavailable outside that town) on an outside terrace in the sun. Can’t think of many countries where good beer like this is so widely available.


I love Belgian beer, and I’m not sure why I don’t drink more of it.

The last time I was in Belgium was 1997. I had a massive breakup with my then girlfriend who was working there and I swore that, beer or no beer, the place was cursed for me and I shouldn’t return. I’d love to go back but I’m a little bit frightened that I’d be struck dead upon arrival due to some drinking oath I’d made with the gods almost 25 years ago (which isn’t much in god years). Nagham has quite a few friends in Brussels though, and it sounds like a cracking country so I think once we get the chance we’ll take a trip there. Hopefully our relationship will stay intact…

Beer-wise it’s my fourth most-rated country although to be honest I still think my rates are low at 217. It is however one of few countries where I’ve rated beer from all the Ratebeer regions so that’s something I guess. At any rate quality outweighs quantity and I’ve loads of beers at 4.5 or above:

Struise Pannepot Grand Reserva (Calvados) 4.8
Westvleteren 12 XII 4.8
Trappistes Rochefort 10 4.6
Tripel Karmeliet 4.5
St. Bernardus Pater 6 4.5
Barbãr Bok 4.5
Orval 4.5
Westvleteren Blond 4.5

Fairly predictable but I think I like Barbār Bok more than most.

Belgium also stands out as a country where I’ve had many of the better beers multiple times. I mean… Orval, Chimay, Rochefort, St Bernardus… Staples all and the reason I started doing this.

I’ve had beer from 78 Belgian breweries so that’s pretty good really. And 3 out of my 4 highest-rated breweries are Belgian: De Struise (4.04), St. Bernardus (4.01) and De Halve Maan (3.98).

No place rates obviously. Here’s hoping that changes.


I’ve been going to Belgium for many years and can remember the early 1990’s when La Chouffe only came in 0.75 litre bottles and were cork and capped; well before they got bought out by Duvel Moortgat. My first Tim Webb Belgian Good Beer Guide also included The Netherlands because there wasn’t enough information or knowledge of Belgium’s wonderful bar scene back then!

I’ve travelled extensively throughout the country and love it’s weird unexpectancy and damn right oddities. I am away from home currently or I could fill a 100 pages with pictures to illustrate what I mean. From an American Way Station: to the bottle museum: Museum of Belgian Beers, Lustin, Belgium - Belgian Beer Specialist through to this review from 2009 of a bar in Gent:

Bizarre, perplexing and weird are the best three words I can spell, that sum up this place. I forced my reluctant wife to enter what can only be discribed as a dirty, full garage or shed. We were met by a bearded chap (Pater Lieven) with three Christmas jumpers on, he moved some rags, wood and an empty crate to reveal a bench seat and a small but long, thin table. Above our heads were a multitude of old bikes, lamps, bird cages (with plastic fish in them) and religious artifacts, there is other stuff too, but you only have 5000 characters in a Beerfly review. The only light came from candles and a roaring wood fire at the far end of the garage/shed. Through the gloom we now saw other people, some young French speakers and a group of middle aged Flemish men. I asked if he had any Amber beers, he said he only had dark and wandered off to return with two bottles of Rochefort Trappist Ale 10 and no glasses. My wife decided we didn’t want to ask for glasses because of cleaning issues, so we risked Viles Disease instead. Half way through our beer the Flemish chaps left and Pater choose that moment to replenish the fire. He rummaged around and came up with an electric circular saw and proceeded to cut up a wooden pallet covering my wife with wood shavings. There was plenty of wood stacked around the room, but just for show (I assume) he wanted to fill the room with noise and wood dust. Have a look by all means, but don’t expect a cheap beer and just enjoy the strange ways of a deranged, disturbed, unbalanced owner.

My beery stats are not that impressive for the amount of times I’ve been, but I often just drink old favourites rather than choosing something new to rate.

958 Different beers sampled, top ones below:

Westvleteren 8 Extra 4.9 4.19 4/10/2012
St. Bernardus Christmas Ale 4.8 3.88 4/9/2012
La Chouffe 4.8 3.76 5/2/2012
Gulden Draak Imperial Stout 4.6 3.56 2/7/2019
Gulden Draak 4.5 3.8 5/16/2012
Westmalle Dubbel 4.4 3.84 5/17/2012
De Dolle Stille Nacht Special Reserva 2005 4.4 3.98 12/9/2014
Westvleteren 12 XII 4.3 4.42 4/10/2012
Malheur Bière Brut / Reserve 4.3 3.78 4/25/2012
St. Bernardus Tripel 4.3 3.8 4/27/2012
Bierboom Bruin 4.3 3.46 12/8/2013
Struise CapSoul 4.3 3.78 4/30/2015
St. Bernardus Abt 12 Oak Aged 4.3 3.9 7/25/2016
De Dochter van de Korenaar L’Ensemble 4.3 3.78 1/25/2019
De Vier Monniken Monachus Barrel Series #1 4.3 3.48 4/19/2020

222 Breweries: Most rated are:

Name Type Beer Count My Count Est.
De Struise Brouwers
Oostvleteren Microbrewery 263 26 2001
Brouwerij Huyghe
Melle Commercial Brewery 142 23 2000
Anheuser-Busch InBev Belgium (AB InBev)
Leuven Commercial Brewery 79 21 1785
Brouwerij Van Steenberge
Ertvelde Commercial Brewery 334 18 1784
Brouwerij Strubbe
Ichtegem Microbrewery 85 17 1830

89 Places reviewed from 8 of the 11 Provinces, my top three being De Beirboom and 't Brugs Beertje, two very different bars in Brugge and the excellent drinks warehouse that is Vanuxeem. Brugge is my ‘go to city’ but I also love Gent, Antwerp, Brussels and the coastal tram.

We try and go every year on the Brugge Beer Festival weekend (not because of the festival) because of the International Beer Swap that is held on the Friday before in De Bierboom, it’s awesome. The beer festival is too busy for us, so we take a bus or train out of Brugge on the Saturday and venture into the fest on the Sunday, when the crowds have departed and seats are available. The truth is Brugge doesn’t need a beer festival, it is one!

I could go on, but I might bore you!



Belgium is my 5th highest country with 189 rates. Clear top rated is Westvleteren 12 XII at 4.4 which was my 1000th rating, with plenty of Lambic beers near the top of my list. My overall 2nd and 3rd highest rated breweries are Brouwerij 3 Fonteinen and Cantillon.

Have been across to visit quite afew times, but all pre-rate beer days before having to avoid gluten, afew trips to Brussels drinking Belgium beer in the 1990’s as we had a friend working over there, including visiting Cantillon - amusingly we did the tour with a random Australian couple who tried the beers at the end and nodded along as we said how good we thought they were, then afterwards once the tour guide had gone asked us did we actually mean that as they tasted like they’d all gone sour but they didn’t want to say anything! Doh!! We brought quite afew bottles back from that visit. My honeymoon was in Bruges and we had a great time there.

In terms of cider, there are 15 active cideries in Belgium, with Stassen having the most listed with 27 entries

The top 5 for Belgium Cider and Cidery raters is:

BelgiumCider Ratings



My 2nd most rated country with 197. I should try and make something special for #200 can probably arrange in short order. I’ve yet to visit. I wanted to go for 10yr RB anniversary but that came and went and then covid and job change and now who knows when. I was physically in country on bus trip but we didn’t stop, took ferry from England to France and drove straight over to Amsterdam without stopping. As a style collector I once ordered a faro from Belgium in a box that came in big bag, it got delivered to lobby of New York City apartment building and ruptured. i got home from work and the doorman said “you have a package and it appears to be leaking all over the floor and also is the strangest smell I’ve ever encountered”

I’m missing the one county Liege and apparently Val Dieu is distributed in states but not to mine so I have to remember to look when i’m traveling about.


551 ratings, putting it 4th overall behind only Canada, US, and UK.
A 3.41 average puts it in my top 5 best rated countries. Of the 4 ahead of it only Denmark has a significant number of ratings though.

Top 5 Rated Beers:
Struise Black Albert
De Cam Framboise Lambiek
Struise Black Damnation III - Black Mes
3 Fonteinen Armand’4 Oude Geuze Zomer
3 Fonteinen Oude Geuze Cuvée Armand & Gaston

The Struise Black Albert is my only 5.0 rating, and thus my higest rated beer on the stie. (Though it is probably rounded up a bit for the experience in fairness.) The De Cam Framboise Lambiek is my second highest rated beer of the last decade.

I have rated a beer from all 11 of the regions, and rated places in 4.
2 trips to Belgium is enough to make it my fourth most visited country after the US (lots), England (4) and Wales (3).

  • We had a superlatively good meal at In´t Spinnekopke with cheese croquettes and lapin a la gueze that were so good that we ordered croquettes almost everywhere we saw them for the rest of our Belgium trip, and I even tried to replicate them at home!
  • At De Heeren van Liedekercke I ordered Orvalliflette because I didn’t understand the Flemish menu and recognized Orval in the description. On our return visit a few years later I discovered they have English menus. I ordered Orvalliflette again because it’s delicious and fun!
  • At Waterhuis in Ghent a bartender who was not fluent in English explained to me what gentse kop was. (Tasty!)
  • Randomly met up with DSG at HopDuvel in Ghent. (I think we first met at Zythos if I recall correctly.)
  • In Antwerp the owner at Kulminator had injured himself so we couldn’t order many of the items we wanted to try. The menu was a giant tease. Loved the cat though.

Random Tidbits:

  • I think the Zythos festival may have been our first meeting of several of the English Ratebeer folks but my memory of it is fuzzy.
  • I won a De Dolle t-shirt in a raffle at Zythos that I still have 13 years later but I accidentally bleached it while homebrewing.
  • Flight to Brussels from Heathrow I think I was asleep before we even took off after a rough layover.
  • Flight from Brussels to Heathrow was glorius, with very few people on the flight and I had an emergency row seat with like three feet of leg room - I had to stretch to reach the seat pocket in front of me.
  • We did a guided tour of WWI/WW2 sites around Ypres and had our guide take us to Westvletern. She brought her family and they were talking about how it’s never been the same since some website declared it the best beer in the world. We decided not to comment on our involvement with said website LOL

amusingly we did the tour with a random Australian couple who tried the beers at the end and nodded along as we said how good we thought they were, then afterwards once the tour guide had gone asked us did we actually mean that as they tasted like they’d all gone sour but they didn’t want to say anything! Doh!!

Reminds me that when we were at Cantillon we had a 750 mL bottle of something that we tried to share with another table because it was early in the day and we wanted to try more beers, but they looked at us like we were trying to pull some kind of scam! :smiley:

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I too love visiting Belgium. Sadly, COVID has meant I haven’t visited since autumn 2018. Excited to get back soon.

I have rated 943 beers from Belgium and I have rated beers from all 11 provinces. Belgium is my 4th most rated country.

Highest rated breweries are:

  1. 3 Fonteinen (average rating of 4.33 across 38 beers rated)
  2. Tilquin (4.13, 15)
  3. De Cam (4.10, 10)
  4. Cantillon (4.07, 45)
  5. De Dolle (4.02, 10)

My most-rated Belgian brewery is De Struise at 82 beers.


It’s 12 Belgian rates for me, all beers, and all highly rated, the average being 3.7 (I am a generous rater it has to be said) - and those 12 beers cover 6 of the 11 regions. I’ve visited a few times, alas none of those visits were during my Ratebeer active lifetime (which basically started during lockdown 1) so there are many gaps for me on here. Most recent trip was with a local group of (former) council workers who have an annual pilgrimage to Ostend as a base, and tour about a bit, this trip involved a day trip to Ghent incorporating a visit to the Delerium brewery - was a great day was that! Also had a day in Brussels, helped enormously by being with veterans of prior trips who knew where to go - I was clueless! Bruges was visited a couple of times, even Ostend wasn’t too shabby. Biggest disappoitment of the trip was seeing the pissing boy, how small is that (the whole thing, not his wotsit)? Could easily walk past and not see it, bit like that dog in Edinburgh - landmarks should be big and obvious. I have always planned to go back, would love to see more of the country (and its weirdness) and of course drink more of its beers.


Ah, this is a lovely thread. I am a big fan of Belgium and it’s probably my most-visited foreign country having made a dozen or so visits. My brother in law lived in Brussels for a time so we visited him, I’ve been for music festivals, stopovers on the way to other places by rail and more. One of my favourite trips was to watch Wales play football in 2015-ish, ending the night in the early hours drinking bottles of Hoegaarden. I have always been a stalwart defender of Brussels when most people seem to dislike it.

I have 136 ticks on the yellow app with Cantillon my top-rated brewery, also a big 3F fan. I don’t drink as many dubbels as I used to although its one of my favourite styles.

Love Belgium.


can’t say it’s a big surprise to see my name popping up in lots of the Belgian lists, of course. :wink:

Stats have increased a lot over the last two years on Brewver, obviously:

Although the AB InBev move has disgusted and turned away most of the Belgian ratebeer crew, and not all have moved on to Brewver, we’re still a happy gang, meeting up quite often for tastings and beer festivals.

That being said, if you’re visiting our lovely small country: feel free to contact me on facebook (tim de roeck), and maybe we can meet up for a few beers, a tasting at my place (Ghent) or just a small beer trade. I still love meeting other beer geeks and tickers!


Have got a bit behind on these again…

I haven’t really had much Belgian beer in a very long time - after enjoying plenty in my early RB years, I went off it as I discovered IPAs. However, the last few years I’ve got thoroughly bored with the overwhelming profusion of identikit hoppy pales out there, and have recently craving more traditional Belgian stuff - my next beer order will definitely have some of it!

I’ve had 69 Belgian beers, making it my 5th most rated country and my 6th highest-rated country (of those where I’ve got more than 10 rates).

My top Belgian brews so far probably show that I’ve only had the more obvious Belgian brews:
Orval 4.4
Westvleteren 12 XII 4.3
Westvleteren 8 Extra 4.2
Leffe Tripel (Triple) 4.1
Silly Saison 4.1
Abbaye des Rocs Spéciale Noël 4.1

There’s only one Belgian brewer I’ve had more than 5 rates from - that’s AB-Inbev (belgium), which is my 6th lowest-rated brewer (5+ rates) anywhere in the world at just 2.56.

My most-rated Belgian region is Flemish Brabant, with 20 rates. The only region I’m yet to have a brew from is Liege, but that looks like it’ll be very easy to tick off when I next get around to putting in an online order - so I fully expect Belgium to soon become the third country where I’ve rated something from all regions (after England and Wales).

I haven’t been to Belgium since I’ve been on RB, However, I’d been a couple of times before that. I remember:

  • Stayed in Brussels whilst I was inter-railing with a friend in my early 20s’ Drank a LOT of beer, but I still remember the tiny Mannekin Pis. Loved that something so unimpressive was one of their main tourist attractions - I have a lot of respect for a country that has enough self confidence that it doesn’t need to build massive monuments to draw attention. I kind of think of it as one-downmanship, which is something that I’m well up for! I felt Denmark was kind of similar with the (very) Little Mermaid.

  • Loved Bruges on a long weekend with my wife; a gorgeous place. We were thinking about going back last year but hadn’t got around to booking anything, and obviously Covid has put a damper on that plan for the forseeable. We’ll get there again somewhen though, and when we do I plan to drink some great Belgian beer!


Some behind again on these excellent treads, Belgium & Belgium beers came into my life when I met a Belgium guy hiking the Kerry Way on my Irish adventure in 1998, he was wearing a T shirt with 400 beers logos all over. After a couple of days hiking & drinking in the country pubs in the evening with him we became firm friends & I decided to visit the following summer. There he proceeded to introduce me to Belgium’s finest beers in Brussel’s pubs, a lovely beer festival in a ruined abbey, a visit to his uni town bar & visits to his home village pub. Needless to say I’ve never drank as much again as in them 5 days, I was staying in the top of his parents house & still remember going to bed late with the room spinning!

On that trip I made day visits to Bruges & Ghent, beautiful cities. After meeting a Belgium couple in New Zealand traveling in 2002/03, they insisted that I visit them also but in there home city of Antwerp. Which I did the summer of 2003, it’s always great when you’ve local’s to show you around, have a few drinks & watch there local football team Royal Antwerp with them.

My last visit was in 2015, when I took my wife’s car up to West Flanders & stayed next to St. Bernardus Brewery just outside of Watou. Which I also loved. A great brewery to tour with some cracking beers. I also visited De Dolle & De Struise over 2 days. Highly enjoyable.

Belgium is in 5th place of my beers rated, 178 from 57 breweries, average of 3.4, which is 4th highest when I’ve had at least 10 beers.

Top beers - De Struise XXXRye Quad Reserva (Bourbon Barrel Aged) - 4.4
St. Bernardus Abt 12 - 4.3
St. Bernardus Triple and Westmalle Triple - 4.2
Trappistes Rochfort 10, La Chouffe, Orval and De Dolle Oerbier Special Reserva - 4.1

I’ve rated from all 11 regions, with the highest - West Flanders averaging 3.54 over 52 beers

Top breweries - St. Bernardus - 3.89 over 8 beers,
De Struise - 3.6 over 9 beers
Duvel Moorgat - 3.58 over 5 beers

I’ve 6 place ratings - St. Bernardus Brewery - 88
De Dolle Brewery - 84

I’m overdue my 4th visit to this very fine country after having to cancel last summer, can’t wait, I have Tim Webb’s & Joe Stange latest excellent Belgium Beer Guide and a ‘Hidden Belgium’ book to undercover them cultural gems, one or two mentioned above, as you can’t start drinking too early every day!