Time to split Russia like the breakup of the Soviet Union! Ok, really bad joke, sorry.
Anyway, for real, looks like lots of people are voting for Russian split on other thread. I know we’ve talked a bit about this on the massive regions split thread here and there, but let’s try to get some agreement to tell how to split Russia into regions when the time comes? Seems like there is eight federal districts, but I’m guessing that isn’t the best way to do this? Seems rather complicated.
Or do we do 85 regions if you count republics, oblasts, autonomous districts, krais, autonomous okrugs, federal cities and the one autonomous oblast? What do you think @YantarCoast and others?
The regions are pretty straight forward (from Russia’s perspective), the only question is Crimea, which the international community considers Ukraine, but Russia considers an oblast. The quandaries of continued imperialism.
There’s a few regions of other countries that Russia has supported separatism for that are listed as separate countries (Artsakh, South Ossetia, Transdniestria). We should probably aim for consistency here, so I reckon the two logical options are either making Crimea and Sevastopol their own countries (or a combined one) on RB or adding them as two regions of Russia. I recognise that the on-the-ground reality is closer to the latter, but it seems safer to go with the former given its’ status in the eyes of the rest of the international community.
It’s worth pointing out that the Crimean Peninsula is actually seen as two separate regions by Russia: the Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol.
As for the rest of Russia, you’re definitely right: the other 83 federal subjects of Russia (oblasts, republics, krais, autonomous okrugs, federal cities, and the autonomous oblast) are super clear and all have official English-language names.
Or the third option of keeping Crimea in Ukraine where it currently is (although the RB approach is usually to split out as many countries as possible regardless if they have separate juridical existence).
You mean Abkhazia. Russia doesn’t support separatism in Artsakh (it recognises the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan).
If we are going to be consistent then Crimea and Sevastopol should be listed as regions of Russia. Not sure why we would make Crimea a separate country, as that doesn’t reflect the current reality.
The last time I asked about this (something like five years since Crimea and Sevastopol were annexed by Russia, we are almost at year seven now) I was told that “the situation isn’t entirely clear” or something similar to that. The thing is, it’s very clear from a practical point of view. If I want to drink a beer in Crimea I need a Russian visa to get there. The couple of beers that I have from Crimea in my cellar clearly say “Made in Russia” on the can. From what I understand, that is why we have Abkhazia, South Ossetia and so on (which are also not recognised by the international community) - to reflect the situation on the ground for the traveller.
Anyway, if the situation does change then it shouldn’t be too hard to revert the Crimea + Sevastopol beers and breweries to Ukraine (there are about five or so breweries in the database).
If, however, for some reason we are now going with the view of the majority of the international community, then the case should be made for merging Abkhazia and South Ossetia into Georgia, North Cyprus into Cyprus, etc.
As for the rest of Russia’s regions, yeah, it’s pretty straightforward there. 83 regions. I wouldn’t use the Federal Districts because no one really cares about them (besides government agencies) and they have no real history.
Personally I prefer an anglicised approach to the names, with Oblast and Krai being translated as Region and Autonomous Okrug as Autonomous Region. Nowadays there’s no actual difference between a Krai and an Oblast, it’s just a traditional thing.
Right; I meant Abkhazia, but the status of Artsakh is in the same category of breakaway states that basically nobody recognises (same with the Turkish Republic of Cyprus, also). Either way, border control is a thing that exists and anyone that’s visited any of them will tell you that the situation is different on the ground.
It’d probably just be easier if we made it abundantly clear that we’re taking the same approach to defining a country/region as Wikitravel does; that the important thing is the differences experienced by the average traveller in entering it. I reckon that’s probably why Bonaire, which is nothing more than a Dutch municipality but is in the Caribbean, is separate as well.
I kind of like the idea that RB lists absolutely everything as a separate country, if there is the slightest question about it. For now I’d say doing nothing is the easier option with crimea, splitting it off to russia or independent can be for later discussion. More important is splitting the 83
To be honest, I think splitting Russia should be low priority. There isn’t really that much interest judging by the vote (five people out of 30 so far), there are only a handful of active raters here, distribution to the wider world is a bit sketchy, and there are more important and easier countries (in my view) to be split first.
Ya, well I just started this thread because it was getting some votes, while the others all had been mostly decided on. Just trying to get things ready one way or another.
To be clear, the reason for listing places such as Kosovo, Abkhazia and South Ossetia is that they are considered disputed, and that the situation has been frozen or stable for some time (a decade has been mentioned)
The same applies for Crimea (+Sevastopol).
Therefore, to be consistent, Crimea (incl. Sevastopol) should be split out as it’s own entity, not belonging to neither Ukraine nor Russia.
The situation wrt. to Luhansk and Donest People Republics should probably also be reviewed.
Not sure how that is being consistent, given that Crimea and Sevastopol don’t claim to be sovereign states (unlike all the other disputed entities here).
Ok hear me out… Crimea and Sevastopol are disputed regions. Let’s assume both Russia and Ukraine get split into regions on RB at some point. Both can be a region of both countries, right?
Fictitious numbers for the sake of this discussion… Let’s say there are 10 breweries in Crimea. 5 of these breweries consider themselves Russian, 5 consider themselves Ukrainian. The region is listed under both countries and can be assigned to whatever one the brewery thinks itself a part of. Problem solved, no?
Then we have the question of how do we determine which country they consider themselves part of… Well they’ll probably make this decision themselves one way or another, domain extension of their website (.ru or .ua), or perhaps country setting on Untappd (if they’re a claimed brewery).
Totally get this is not ideal and a far from perfect situation. My overall point being, Crimea and Sevastopol can easily be added as a region of both countries if necessary. It doesn’t HAVE to be one or the other…
RB is no official authority in geopolitics, we don’t have to make a decision either way. We can simply have both.
Again to reiterate, I know it’s not ideal, but this is a viable solution is it not?
Russia: I want it.
Ukraine: No. It’s mine.
UN: (ineffective speeches due to Russian veto).
Ratebeer: If you’re going to fight over it, neither of you are going to have it. Now, go and sit on the naughty step.
